Interview: Moving the Whole Family to Kraków and Buying an Apartment in Poland
Stanislav: Hi everyone. My name is Stanislav Tsyss. This is the onlineteam.me project, and our section where we talk about everything related to doing business and living in Poland. Today, I have Igor with me. We’ll talk about his experience of moving here with his family, how he organized his life here, and how he bought an apartment. I think he’ll share the details about the mortgage or rent, which he did in secret.
Igor: No, I just took a regular mortgage.
Stanislav: Then he’ll talk about how to take a regular mortgage in Poland. But I think he’ll share some tips, nuances, and risks that are important to avoid. Igor, tell us a little bit about what you’re doing now, what your life, work, and business look like here.
Igor: Right now, I work as a software developer. I work remotely, and I live in a rented apartment with my family. I have a wife and a child. My schedule is flexible, I work when I want, and I really like it.
Stanislav: So, you already have a company here, you work for yourself, but you receive money through a legal entity?
Igor: I have contracts that are made as subcontracting. I also have my main job. In general, I work for the company as a remote developer, and all contracts are not employment contracts but are made through the company.
Stanislav: You received a resident card (right to reside in Poland) through your business, and now you’re applying for another card. Is that right?
Igor: I’ve already extended my card through this business. Now I have a plastic card.
Stanislav: Tell us how everything started with moving to Poland. How did you make the final decision, and what strategy did you use for the move to Poland? Tell us briefly about that.
Igor: It was difficult to make this decision because everyone goes through their own process when they are at home. Everything is clear at home, minimal risks. The only problem is the inability to predict what will happen tomorrow, but that depends on the type of activity.
I was comfortable with this. The initial situation was like this – I had my own business in Ukraine. I was comfortable with it. But even in the 90s, I started visiting Poland. I really liked the difference between what was happening here and there.
Stanislav: And how did you make the decision to move to Poland?
Igor: The idea had been there for a long time. To change something in your life, you need some kind of stress. I had some changes in my life, and a pretty big stress occurred. The decision was made quickly, literally in 1-2 days. All I had to do was just sit down and go. There comes a moment when you’re no longer afraid because you’re tired of being afraid.
I had wanted to do it for a long time, but kept postponing it, hesitating. And then I just took off and went. And there is nothing scary about it. I went to Poland on the basis of a Slovak multiple-entry visa. I went straight to Warsaw because I have a friend living there. Then I rented a room. My wife stayed home at that time because she was studying at university.
Then a friend of mine, who lives here in Krakow, invited me. The first time I came, I had a WOW effect. But we are all adults, and we understand that the WOW effect doesn’t last forever. The second time I visited Kazimierz (the historical district of Krakow, formerly the Jewish quarter), watched a film about the war and Jews, and had the opposite effect.
But when I came to Krakow for the third time and visited all the outskirts, I really liked the city. What struck me the most was that it’s not a huge metropolis, where there’s constant hustle and bustle, but it’s also not a provincial city. Krakow is definitely a city with over a million residents, and it’s a very lively city. Here, every fourth person is a newcomer, and there’s a multicultural spirit all around.
Stanislav: And after all this, you decided to stay in Krakow?
Igor: Yes.
Stanislav: And how did you handle it with your wife? Did you just tell her, “Come here”?
Igor: Well, I immediately started working on her documents. When they were ready, we moved here and settled into a rented apartment.
Stanislav: Regarding the apartment, did someone help you with renting it?
Igor: There are different options. There are agencies, just like everywhere, and many Russian-speaking people work here. You call and negotiate, they have a lot of offers. I’m not sure about the conditions afterward because I didn’t turn to them. Their service fees are about the same as in Kiev, around 50% of the rent price. You can talk, you can negotiate. There are private individuals you can find through acquaintances. I got help for 500 zlotys.
Stanislav: And what would you recommend to a newcomer: should they turn to someone, or look for a place themselves?
Igor: If your Polish is at a zero level, you definitely need someone who will help you sign the contract. In my contract, the person who helped me didn’t include all the details.
Stanislav: What exactly did they miss?
Igor: Well, for example, the landlords can specify in the contract that when you leave the apartment, you must do cosmetic repairs. In our contract, it states that all expenses related to the maintenance of this property fall on us. Meanwhile, across the street, my friends from Kiev live, and they don’t have such conditions. If something breaks, like a faucet, they call the landlords, and they come and fix everything.
You just need someone to help you read the contract. How you find that person doesn’t matter. I generally recommend joining a group where Russian-speaking residents of Krakow hang out, and there will always be dozens, if not a couple dozen people who have been in the same situation. They’ll suggest, tell you who to contact, and even give you some reviews. So, you’ll be well-prepared and knowledgeable.
Stanislav: Cool. Let’s move on. Your wife arrived here. Let’s talk about the business. How did you open it: did you do it yourself, register it online, or did you turn to a notary? And why did you decide to get the residency card based on your business?
Igor: There are many ads online nowadays offering residence permits right after registering a company.
Stanislav: By the way, that was our trick. We thought it would work based on that idea.
Igor: There are a lot of “underwater rocks” here. Implementing these ideas is like seeing the world through rose-colored glasses. You have to understand that Poles are not fools. And if someone just registers an empty company, no one will even talk to them. There are three options for registration right now:
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Through a notary — the longest and slowest option, you have to wait 1-1.5 months for all the documents to be registered. It’s not a very attractive option.
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Through a person who has pobyt stały (the right to permanent residence in Poland). They help directly through the internet and do everything for you “turnkey.”
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Through the online system. In fact, I can register myself and set up my own company there.
Stanislav: I’d like to finish the speech by returning to the question of business. If you’re watching this video right now and think you don’t have the budget for maintaining and opening a company, then honestly, it’s better not to dive into it. Otherwise, you might end up in a sad situation like one of my acquaintances, who opened an empty company. He signed some papers, paid someone, but then inspectors came and told him, “Dude, goodbye.”
Igor: The second time applying was much more complicated. I brought three times as many documents, did a complete analysis of all the company’s activities for the previous year. I provided invoices and bills for the last 3 or even 6 months.
Stanislav: We also applied recently. We brought a huge stack of papers with all the invoices.
Igor: It was a bit easier for me. I had regular contracts, so I brought them, showed my salary, stated how much taxes I personally paid, and showed that I had money for housing.
Stanislav: And how long did they give you the card for?
Igor: For two years. I didn’t meet all the requirements. If I had been saving, I would’ve had the same story as my acquaintances. They had a company, and there was a large sum of money on it, much more than I had. But no one was employed, just a dry business plan.
Stanislav: So, they registered an empty company and put money into it?
Igor: Yes. They were told, “Guys, why do you need the card? In your case, a national visa is enough. Apply for it and live in Poland on a national visa.” So, they didn’t get the residence card.
Stanislav: A national visa — that’s the possibility to live here, but you’re staying on a visa, right?
Igor: Yes. A yearly national visa is issued for 360 days.
Stanislav: Let’s close the topic of business in Poland now. I think this was helpful and valuable. If so, guys, hit the like button. Let’s talk about everyday life. I know that 10 months ago, you had an addition to the family, a baby was born. Tell us a bit about that experience and how you organized your daily life — how it was before the baby and how it’s different now. Are there any details, nuances that people need to know?
Igor: It was simple. My wife transferred to a Polish university…
Stanislav: Was it hard to do?
Igor: No. You just need to study universities and think carefully about what you want. There are public universities, which are expensive and they pressure you for everything. It’s harder to get into them. And then there are private universities, where the professors and subjects are about the same, but it’s easier. So we transferred to a private university, it was very easy, and almost no Polish knowledge was required.
We just did it like this — in Ukraine, my wife attended courses for 30 days and received a certificate of level A2. With this A2 level, we went to the university, signed a promise that she would reach level B1 within 4 months. That was acceptable for that university. For them, a B1 level was enough. So we went to courses, spent a month or a month and a half in Poland attending an intensive course for 5 hours a day and learned the basics. She passed the internal exam and got the certificate required for studying.
And there are a lot of our Russian-speaking guys studying there. The professors understand perfectly well that we’re not Poles, and they turn a blind eye to many things. Getting into this community was smooth and easy. My wife focused on her studies, and I worked, and that was it.
Stanislav: Okay. Did you look into anything about your child’s future? First of all, what’s your plan, where do you want to live, how do you want to arrange your daily life? Have you looked into nurseries and other details yet?
Igor: We haven’t looked into that yet. We’ll think about it when the child is at least 2 years old.
Stanislav: Okay, tell me about the apartment and the purchase process. I think this experience will be useful. In a nutshell, what’s the path to take to get an apartment here? What fees will need to be paid, etc.?
Igor: I grew up with the realities in Ukraine. With our loans that have sky-high interest rates, and mortgages of 15% a year. It’s a nightmare. I never took out loans because I understand that for us, it’s like a debt trap. But in Poland, most of my friends who have moved here live in their own apartments. I asked, “How? Where did the money come from?” I thought you would have to pay through the nose. It turned out it’s much simpler.
If there’s a family of 2 people with any kind of job, they can afford a mortgage. Even with a minimum salary, you can comfortably take out a mortgage and just pay for your own place. The difference between renting an apartment and paying a mortgage is about 10%. So, if you’re paying 1,500 zlotys for rent, you could pay about the same amount as a monthly payment to the bank.
Some of my friends pay less for their mortgage than they paid for renting. The interest rate is around 3.5-3.9% per year. The most expensive banks charge about 4.2%. If you count all the payments, it’s around 4.5% per year. The down payment is 15% of the apartment’s price and sometimes more.
Stanislav: So if the apartment costs 100,000 euros, you need to give 15,000 euros upfront?
Igor: Yes. Without the down payment, you’ll have higher interest rates because you’ll need to pay for a bunch of insurance. But that’s a rare case because last year, a law was passed that says the down payment should be 15%, not 10%. It’s possible to save up that money. Especially if you’re moving from Ukraine, selling something there — that’ll be your base.
And you don’t need to figure it all out by yourself. There are plenty of financial advisors. You go to them, and they cost exactly nothing — they’re free. You talk to one, two, three. You find someone on your wavelength and work with them. That’s it. You agree, shake hands, and they’ll tell you what to do. You say, “I earn this much, my expenses are these, and I have this much free money.” They’ll say, “Okay, let me calculate how much you can afford per month.” Then they’ll explain, “You can afford a house worth 200, 300, or 400 thousand zlotys.”
Stanislav: 400 thousand zlotys is about 100 thousand dollars, right?
Igor: Yes.
Stanislav: And you went with an advisor. Did it cost you anything?
Igor: No. Like I said, they work for free. Their income is a commission. They submit documents to several banks and, after a week, get preliminary responses from the banks. Some reject the application, some accept it. After that, financial advisors get preliminary offers, saying things like: “We’ll give you a 3.7% interest rate, here’s the down payment, here’s the price for the property evaluation, and these are the terms.”
Then the advisor compares all the offers and presents them to me. I choose the one I’m most interested in. Then I had to gather a few more documents, get some bank statements, and tax documents from the previous year. It’s all taken care of very quickly.
Stanislav: So, did you get the money based on your income as an employee, or did your company play a role in it?
Igor: I’ve never worked for anyone as an employee. I only received payment as the president of the company.
Stanislav: And were you considered an individual for the bank — a natural person?
Igor: No. In banks, you always need to show the source of your income. You choose — either you have an unlimited-term employment contract, or you are the president of the board. And it says there: I receive payment for board meetings. Or you can provide a contract for a service. And everywhere there are different requirements, different documents depending on how you earn money. For me, as the president of the company, the president of the board, it was enough to show my last three salaries.
It’s worth noting that I had several options for paying taxes. I could have saved by transferring money through Ukraine at a much lower percentage (5%). But I decided that since I’m a guest here, I should play by the local rules. In the end, I paid the full tax on every dollar earned (18%). This helped me. We applied for a mortgage at only two banks.
Literally, within a week, I got the first response. Then another approval for a mortgage came. Before that, we needed to choose an apartment. There are exhibitions here, or rather fairs, where they present housing. You can find tons of booths, many developers. The offers are available in all districts. All you need to do at this event is say exactly what you want.
So, you say, “I want such an apartment in this district with so many rooms.” They tell you the price. If it’s too much, you go on to the next one. You can look at all the selected options, explore the district, the roads, and the infrastructure. And when you’ve decided, you go to the developer, sign the contract, pay the deposit, and that’s it.
Then you have 30 days to sign a notary contract with the developer. Since the apartment is still under construction, you need a contract in which you agree to pay in installments, and they will build the apartment.
Stanislav: What happens next? When it’s finished, and when do you pay off the money?
Igor: Our construction will finish at the end of this year, in December. Then they’ll start the heating, put in the doors and windows. By spring (around March), they will hand over the keys. After that, we’ll start the renovation.
Stanislav: So, you have to wait about a year?
Igor: Yes.
Stanislav: So, you’re living in a rented apartment right now and paying the mortgage at the same time?
Igor: Here’s an interesting point. I was also afraid of having double the burden, but the situation is different. If the investment is made at the construction stage, all payments go in installments. We have everything split into 6 payments.
Stanislav: So not monthly?
Igor: No, everything is divided into 6 payments per year. The first payment is 10%, then 25%, then 20%, another 20%. The last 10% is paid within 2 weeks after you take the keys.
Stanislav: So when you get the keys, you’ve already paid the full cost of the apartment?
Igor: Yes.
Stanislav: Can you get a long-term loan?
Igor: That’s exactly what I did — I took a mortgage.
Stanislav: So, you took the money in a mortgage to pay the developer. And now you’re paying the bank?
Igor: Yes. We have a tripartite agreement. There’s me, the developer, and the bank.
Stanislav: Got it. Can you work directly with the developer?
Igor: If you have the money, then yes, of course. The important thing is to know that you’ll have enough funds throughout the year. I don’t have that kind of income, so I turned to the bank. And what happens is that as long as the last payment for the full mortgage hasn’t been paid to the developer, I don’t pay the principal of the loan. In other words, the bank pays the developer 15% according to the schedule, and then I start paying the bank money for those 15%. Then, after I pay another 20%, the interest rate slowly starts to increase.
And throughout this year, I’ll have a very small overpayment. When the bank pays the last installment, I’ll start paying the principal of the loan in equal payments. After that, it will be in my interest to quickly do the renovation and move into my apartment so there’s no double payment for housing.
Stanislav: That’s a cool thing, I didn’t know about it. So, from the moment you take the keys to the apartment, you pay the full interest. What’s the amount?
Igor: For the whole amount, it’s about $100-150 per month.
Stanislav: So, you can start with a very small amount? Like $50?
Igor: Yes. I was paying about that amount in the first few months. You just need to make sure there’s money on your card, and the bank will deduct the payment on the same day.
Stanislav: Reminds me of how PayPal works. But I’d like to highlight one important nuance: for everything to go smoothly, you must show the bank that you have cash. If you don’t have money, they’ll send you away. Am I right?
Igor: The bank needs to know that you have an income in Poland. If you don’t show this income, the bank won’t talk to you.
Stanislav: Can I show some papers, certificates from Ukraine? Or is that too risky for the bank and won’t work?
Igor: No, it won’t work. Only legal income earned in Poland.
Stanislav: Well, fair enough. Can’t hurt to try. Listen, it was great chatting with you. Let’s wrap it up. Give some recommendations to the people watching this video. Maybe some are moving here on their own, but most likely, they’re watching because they want to move with their husband, wife, or kids. What advice would you give them to move effectively? By “effectively moving” I mean, so no one gets scammed with their visa, no one gets stopped at the border, and so on. And also, give some tips about life here.
Igor: First, I’ll give you this advice – if you want to do something, just do it. Don’t be afraid. It’s not scary here, it’s civilization, it’s a completely different country. There’s no moment where the mentality is so different, and you won’t be understood. On the contrary, Poland is a very international country. People will explain and help you, and again – there are many Ukrainians living here.
You don’t need to be afraid – if you’ve decided, just move forward. As for moving here, if it’s for business, the rules are clear and simple. You don’t need to flatter anyone, you don’t need to make deals with the tax office. You just need to go to the right institution and have a chat. I have a little off-topic story. When I went to the tax office to submit my report for the first time, the girl working there gave me a form to fill out.
Then she looked at me and said, “Oh, you’re not Polish?” After that, she took the form, filled it out by hand, just asking me for my details, and then called another tax office to check until what time they were open. At the end, she said: “You came to the wrong tax office, you need to go to this address and give the form to this window.” I walked out in shock and thought, “Where would they treat a person like that where we’re from?”
In general, don’t be afraid. There’s civilization here, a big community, and there are people to ask questions to. You won’t be left alone. Just make sure you come here with something. Either have a job offer or don’t blindly turn to agencies where you’ll leave around 7 thousand UAH. I already have two acquaintances who did that. They came, and there was no work. Some of them weren’t even allowed in.
Agencies are a business, and they make money from it. And they mostly make money from our people. So it’s better to check things out, talk to someone, and go to a specific place for work. Don’t be afraid of working-class jobs here. Even with the minimum wage, you can live. It’s not scary. Yes, you won’t live luxuriously, but gradually, finding another job or improving your conditions here, you’ll be able to travel around Europe.
Even just traveling around Poland is great. The infrastructure is excellent for traveling, and it’s not expensive. Life here is good. It’s civilized, clean, pleasant, and clear. I wouldn’t be afraid – we improved our quality of life by moving. If you’re thinking about it, my only advice is – don’t be afraid, just go.
Stanislav: You have to make a decision and try?
Igor: First, get yourself at least a tourist visa. The cheapest and easiest one. After that, visit Poland for at least a week, stay in a budget hostel, get here using blablacar. Or buy a train or bus ticket. It’s not an astronomical amount, and it’s not a one-way ticket. Go, look around, meet someone for coffee. People will tell you a lot, show you around, and that’s it. After that, you can make your decision based on something, not just someone else’s stories or rose-colored glasses.
Stanislav: Cool. Thanks for the video, for the advice. Guys, I think this was useful for you. If so, give us likes, leave comments, ask questions. Maybe we didn’t cover something that’s important to you. With Igor’s permission, I’ll leave a link to his Facebook profile. Maybe someone will write to him, ask a question, I think Igor will help as much as he can. And most importantly – be active, that way you let us know that you’re interested, and we’ll keep recording more of these useful videos. Thanks everyone, and goodbye.
